The MakeMeThinner Support Forum

[gr8views]

DC,

You are so close to your goal. It really sounds as if you are beating yourself up over something, though I'm not sure what it is.

You DESERVE to be thin and happy. (Thin doesn't equate to happiness, but reaching a goal you've set for yourself does!) You deserve to take care of yourself. Logically you know you have control, but you are giving up that control in some way. Why? The control we learn as we MF to thinness is what makes us stronger and better people.

I've only been here a few short weeks, but I've read a lot of your posts. You have the ability to get to where you want to go. The passion has been misplaced for some reason. You can do this. You CAN DO THIS!!!

Reach out to all of us whenever you need help. You've been inspirational to many of us; I want to help you in return.

Keep shaking!

Diane

[DutchChoc]

Thanks for the encouragment. I'm feeling pretty good now. I have several housework-in-progress jobs going on which will keep me busy as long as I don't overdo what I'm doing and introduce too much frustration. I'm on a pretty thin emotional/behavioral margin right now. At least I know all of my own tricks. I can tell almost immediately when I've turned the corner and decided to misbehave. Unfortunately, I tend to try to rationalize a bad decision and at the upstart, it seems like a minor infraction and then that snowballs into the chaos. I'll be on the lookout for those warnings --well, frankly, the bar was already one, but I don't detect a decision to misbehave on a larger scale. Will just be waiting for the shake about noon, etc.

Life feels better when we do what we can feel proud of doing.

gr8views, it's an interesting thought about control, especially the arbitrary way in which I exercise it or don't exercise it. In my "bad times", I really despise any obligation to control my eating. I don't try, I think. I haven't learned to "care" to try when I want to overeat. I actually think I have to approach it as a decision to overeat or not... there seems little gray room in there for maneuvering for me. Protecting my progress is not a matter of concern when I'm in a mood to eat -- what I eat tastes better than thin feels. I'm a wayward one and that's why I struggle with regains and restarts habitually.

fedup, I can't even get to this site from work, unfortunately. I know what you mean about watching oneself because I'm the same way about the sites that I can get to -- actually contributed to my own difficulty by investing lots of time into online recipes, etc, even during the shakes only part of my work. That reached the breaking point, obviously.

So, yes, I'm not sure why I decided to punish or reward myself, either, but I do know that it's inconsistent with control and staying "thin enough" to enjoy myself -- or even to continue enjoying treats, even regular food, in moderation, etc.

[Nancy]

Dutch ~

You've taken the first step in the right direction! Now if we can keep your chin up, your head pointed in the right direction: forward, we'll get you there.

Re:

I can feel belly flab layered upon my waistband that wasn't there

If you are PMS-ing, hell-loh-oh! Some of the belly and crankiness just may be a result of that…

Some women certainly get a bit cwazy inside when their hormones are in an uproar and research is showing such positive results when we take care of ourselves by eating wisely, soy is beneficial and getting plenty of rest. Are you doing that – taking care of yourself?

You’ve confessed to having scarfed things not on your weight LOSS plan but let’s not equate that with being a bad person.

There are no foods that are bad - and eating is not bad. Eating uncontrollably is not healthy, but it is not bad.

The eater is not a bad person either.

Thanks for the confidence in my oh-to-be-wiser potential

We DO have confidence in you, Dutch.

You’ve stuck with the plan in the past, you can do it again.

You feel safer when your day is planned, when you know what you will have and when you will eat it. Have you been carefully planning healthy foods and healthy meal times the last couple of weeks?

Now I do not intend to open up a can of worms here, this is merely an observation - from afar and my eyes are not as sharp as they used to be, but I thought you said not long ago that the SO commented about how you ought to go for a lower weight, that he wanted you to get thinner and yet today, you said he

still refers to me as emaciated

I am confused! Are you trying for a certain weight to please him or you?

I had a very difficult time knowing what weight would be right for me, too.

Long, long time ago, I weighed 128 and I thought that would be what I would aim for in my thinning process.

When I got to 150, my family and friends thought that I looked good.

My doctor said it was a perfect weight for me. She said that at my age (and lemme tell ya when she used the ‘A’ word that bugged the puckies outta me…) that 150-155 would be the recommended weight, that is would be protective of my bones, particularly if I were to fall.

But I had it in my head that I wanted t go for the 128 weight.

I set my resolve and went for it.

I stayed there for quite some time but it was really difficult to stay there.

I could hardly eat anything other than MF. I looked somewhat frail.

I liked the way my clothes fit but in the buff, I was pretty slim. My ribs and spine showed. My forehead looked boney (I dismiss the facial folds up there, hard-earned with life's adventures!).

At 128 pounds there were some body parts that still didn’t seem to be as slender as I wanted them to be: stomach, HIPS and saddlebags even at that weight.

I thought, Hmm…I NEED to lose more weight.

It became almost obsessive for me.

My family kept saying, Nancy, you need to STOP. You look fantastic. STOP and be happy.

I realized that I could do some toning and strengthening and perhaps rearrange some of my weight but that indeed, I DID look good. I no longer weighed 265 pounds and compared to that weight, I had accomplished a wonderful thing.

It dawned on me, why was I not satisfied?

Who was I comparing myself to? and Why?

I wanted to look like the women on TV, in magazines, the way I looked when I was younger.

That was sick.

I am NOT the TV, movie and magazine ladies. I am NOT a teenager; I am NOT in my early twenties (Drat!).

I am a middle aged extraordinary wife, Mom and friend.

I had lived in such a huge body for so long that I did not have a realistic self concept of my new body.

I realized that being healthy was more important than weighing a certain amount.

Why was a certain number on the scale dictating how I felt about myself?

I was giving our bathroom scale – an inanimate object, for pity sake! the power to determine my daily outlook and to define my self worth.

That was sick.

My doc said I was in a totally good place, health-wise at 150. My blood pressure, pulse, cholesterol levels – the ‘good’ cholesterol was good; the ‘bad’ cholesterol was good.

Therefore, my health was deemed ‘good’ by a trained health professional.

My husband couldn’t keep his hands off me. That was/and continues to be VERY good.

My friends all said I looked awesome. Some admitted that they were jealous! What is THAT all about? Some of them started dieting. Hmm…that was good.

I got stares at the grocery store and men ran to open the door for me and offered to help me with my groceries in the parking lot. What was THAT all about?

As I spoke at Take Shape For Life weight management presentations (In our area, there are several other Health Advisors and we used to get together once a week at a local hotel and give presentations on MF, to introduce the product to others interested in knowing more about it.), people flocked to talk to me after the presentation, they wanted to know all about how I lost so much weight. They wanted to know how I felt. They wanted my picture so they could take me home and put me on their refer to remind them that it could be done.

Lemme tell ya, MMT Forum Friends, THAT REALLY RINGS MY CHIMES!

I dunno, Friend, if any of this rings true with you or with others.

There comes a time when we have to ask ourselves,

WHY are we doing this?

WHO are we trying to please?

WHEN will we know that we have arrived at the right weight?

WHAT is our plan for staying at our optimal weight?

WHERE do I go from here?

Dear Dutch ~

What weight do you want?

Why do you want it?

How badly do you want it? If you want a particular number on the scale, what will you have to do to stay there? If it means not eating a whole container of chocolate frosting, then don’t clip the coupon ad do not buy the frosting right now when you are in this cwazy rebellious teenager mental stage of life. Your kid and your SO don’t need frosting either. Sheesh – read the label, do you really want those preservative inside your awesome bod?

Your BMI at 5’ 6” and 137 pounds is 22 which is definitely in the favorable zone
The maximum recommended weight is 155

At 125 pounds, your BMI would be 20; at 120 pounds, your BMI would be 19
You are an exercising machine. I am not. Your muscles weigh more than my bone padding (Hah! How’dja like that polite way to refer to flab?!)

We are the same height: 5’ 6”; I am more experienced in life than you, Gulp! 56 years old (blech!) I look great at 135 and wear a size 6 in most clothing articles.

There comes a time when we have to really think this through and have a little chat with our self. There is a day when we have to say, “This is IT. I have arrived. I did a good job.”

Now let’s get on with the next task of maintaining, learning new things, helping and serving others.

Love ya!
Still like me, Dutch?

[DutchChoc]

Yeah, Nancy, of COURSE I still like you. I like you all the more when I sense that you know where I am, in this odd wilderness of sizes and attitudes.

Yes, I could "stay here" and be better off than ever, practically -- if I could just stop taking advantage of situations and opportunities about food. I did better today. I "relatively" didn't overeat/stuff myself, but I still made some foodie choices. I did not behave like someone on a diet, not like someone trying to deprive myself (what I still see as "FURTHER", etc. I have a hard time trying to decide if I need to do that, or if there's a chance I can just mellow out a bit and be grateful. Just take a breath, just enjoy this for one second without feeling like a nutrition experiment.

I appreciate what you say about the goodness vs badness of food and "us". That's what's hard for me, of course.

Here's a small peak into my day. MF oatmeal @ 8:15, choc mint bar @ 9:15 -- I'm now fairly alarmed. MF shake about noon. Then early afternoon, I get my 2c measurer out and start stacking salad stuff in -- still doing OK, except I use lots of salad dressing, all on the side so I can see it and know about how much I'm using -- well, it's quite a lot @ 80 cal/2T... and I had about 3-4 times that. Then some time goes by, I'm still feeling pretty good. I defrosted a bbq chicken breast and ate that. Still felt OK. More time passes, maybe about 4pm I have some ice cream -- still not "a lot", but I've deviated significantly from any plan that would banish my newly-found fat by having it, so I think at the time, but I'm still OK with that knowing that I'm not bingeing. SO comes home and we have dinner -- spaghetti and a little sauce. Actually, by this time, tummy is hurting in spite of the fact that I wasn't stuffed. I've started thinking that tummy really isn't liking eating much so soon after ending the fast and actually isn't functioning quite optimally -- maybe ice cream is particularly hard for it to digest. Anyway, it's just recently that I noticed that tummy isn't happy even when I don't overeat... still protesting, apparently. Earlier, I always thought I was just stuffed and that's why it hurt. Note that "hurting" is not cause for me to abate, typically!!

Well, from there it was still not bad, still better, still "not perfect", still not what's going to shrink me up as quickly as I'd like to forget this episode, etc.

On the other hand, about sizes and what's optimal, maybe it IS too much of a strain on me to do or have done what I did re wanting to look like a supermodel... lol. I really DON't have to find ways to be miserable looking for ways to be satisfied/happy/content. I could really wake up tomorrow and say, I'm at goal, guys, this is my goal -- just like Sylvia did. The obvious difference is that I'm rocking and reeling in "trouble" and she is stable -- but, dare I say, she might not have internalized the sense of deprivation that I did, or have the same issues, etc. In my case, I merely did what I thought I could do -- the shakes -- and it was relatively easy getting to the size that I did because of not eating. Had I done a modified plan, I suspect that I would have faltered sooner -- I've really never "learned" to eat better in a way that remained with me in all of my dieting experiences.

So, this is a new opportunity for me to try to succeed, at what feels like the 11th hour, to maintain some kind of "less than chubby" appearance.

Re SO, yes, it's confusing to me, too. I get no consistent response, basically. There was the suggestion from him to keep going -- I have no idea why he'd want me to do that if he thought I looked emaciated. At one point, he even said he liked me with more meat on my bones.... all about the same time. And then, of course when I thought I'd put more meat on my bones, not deliberately but through the lack of a transition, I asked him if he liked "that" better and he kind of scoffed and said, "You're not doing this for me, you're doing it for yourself", blah blah -- in other words, I could take that to mean that he wasn't satisfied with me slightly heavier, either. I've certainly pointed out the problems I have with these things, but to no particular avail. It purely doesn't make sense to him that anyone would have such compulsions about eating and not like it -- simultaneously. I guess I can understand that because I have the same questions. In any case, I can't rely upon his opinions, so I'd better get a clear opinion of what I want, yes.

Practically speaking, I'd be OK with this because I haven't "outgrown" more than a couple of things I'd bought, at this point. I really don't want to outgrow anything else, so management NOW is critical. I'm still wanting to find my happiness in this. Aren't we all????

I'll continue to work this through. I'll refer back to these questions and ideas, Nancy. I know you're right that this is good enough... even if it isn't, I think it'd be bad for me psychologically to keep whipping myself with an extremely stringent approach.

More soon!!

[fedup]

Hey Dutch! I haven't logged in alot lately 'cause life's been crazy! A lot of what Nancy said in that post is iDENTICAL to the things I told myself before I started MF (about the goal weight thing I mean.) I know different things work for different people... but for me I enterred into this program knowing that I am fliexible about my goal. It may be too high, it may be too low, but I know its a "range" I'm shooting for. When I was in my 20's, I would always try to get back to the 120's or 130's when I "dieted." I had been 128 pounds (the same magic number as Nancy in her story...) and thought I "had" to get back there. The thing is, my body is NOT HAPPY at that weight. Or should I say I do not want to live my life in the way I would need to maintain that weight. I could basically eat NOTHING to keep myself there, and I had to work out like 3-4 hours a day! I want to be healthy, and I want to look good, but jeez I want to have a life too!!

That's why I feel I've made real progress by being happy with myself more realistically. I will never be a "supermodel" stick figure... and I'm okay with that. I'm a real woman, not airbrushed, touched up and starved. I know in the past my body has been happy around 150/155. If I ate sensibly and was active I could maintain this weight then and not obsess about it every minute. I also looked good. I could wear cute clothes. The only reason I gained is 'cause I was NEVER HAPPY! So now my goal is around 150. It may be a few pounds more, or I may decide to lose a few more, who knows? I'll also need to really rev up the exercise. 'Cause I've been flabby at 150 and I've been more firm at 150, and the exercise really makes a huge difference. Same weight, but down at least 1 size in clothes when I was "firmed up." You've already got that going for you!

My point, in this long rambling post, is just to say that I'd been in that place for so long, where I was never happy with my "numbers", that it made me miss so many other things, AND made me gain the weight back 'cause I never "celebrated" my successes. Only you know what weight makes you happy, and what weight makes your body happy. I just learned that for ME, I found a goal weight that both My body and Myself liked. There'll always be things I can tweak here and there, firm up this, lift that butt etc... but I just don't want to see you beating yourself up over a number. I did it for too many years! Examine how you feel, how you look to yourself, (your pic's loooked great! you're a very trim lady and very toned!) I know I'm taking a page from you and increasing my exercise, you've influenced me that this is essential for me! Hope you don't think I'm giving unwanted advise! Just sharing my own past number obsession with you, hoping it helps to here others have been in this boat too! Hang in there!

[DutchChoc]

You're wise beyond your years, fedup.

Oddly, I've had varying ideas about 150 over the years. When I was
young, like 19-20, I thought it was fine. I think part of that had to do
with the fact that I was a heavy HS'er -- or, let's say that during HS I
went from 125 to 185, with some ups and downs in the middle, some WW
attempts, etc. At the end, I was 185. I don't have any particularly
good memories of that weight or of that time -- they synonymously stand
for "a bad time" for me.

For years after that, I stayed in that range, sometimes 160-ish,
sometimes 140-ish. Beginning 15 years or so ago, I sought "fitness" and
began being interested in aerobics and weight training and getting a
lean, hard-body. It didn't come easily at first, but it did come. I found that perhaps that also gave me a twitch for not being "satisfied"
being "just ordinary". I needed to be "EXTRAordinary" to have a hope of
happiness, or so I thought. I suppose I became obsessed with what I
thought I should look like. What I "could" look like was amazing to me
and once I saw it, I really hated it when I was "off" -- which was, as of
several years ago, most of the time.

Not much has changed! MF provided a vehicle with which I could rapidly
return to a low weight, with my conformity. Things were pretty good
until I started eating. I'd say that it was worth it.

Right now, I'm not obsessing about a weight anymore, because to have a high expectation of a weight would logically require more cooperation
than I've been contributing. I'm equally not "satisfied" with where I am
and with the situation/choices I face.... this is where the rubber meets
the road and being obstinate like I am, it's difficult to accept that
maybe I can't have it all my way.

When my blender broke today, I did buy a new one -- which signifies to me that the ability to make shakes the way I like them is still high on my
agenda, albeit I still don't envision moving in that direction
immediately. I really do feel like I can't do it now, can't get through
the first two days now. I have no real idea if I should try or if I
should just try to adapt to the LESS THAN PERFECTION!!!! that this is,
in my opinion. Well, call me an egomaniac, but while I know I maybe
could/should think this is OK, to me it's really mediocre. And if it's
mediocre, this problem I've caused by eating too much for two weeks, I
suspect the solution is one I could/should like, too, which is cutting
back..... but therein lies my hardship/conflict.

I think I could say that I'm eating less, I've probably stopped bingeing,
in fact, so MAYBE I'm on the path -- but I still know that I'm allowing
myself too much of the "gravy" of life, which, to me, is nearly all sweet.

Thanks for the good thoughts. I realize I have a rigid ideal and not the
drive to reach it at the moment, apparently!! Just wishing I could be satisfied hasn't resulted in my being content; just wanting to decide
that this is OK is perhaps marginally helping me stop overeating, though.
As long as I don't imagine myself going back on the full fast
"tomorrow", I don't seem to be in quite the same panic to eat,
fortunately. Hopefully that will have some lasting good. Time will
tell, and at some point I'll have a firmer plan. I hope.

[hawaiiwhatnot]

Dutch,


Reaching goal and maintaining is definitely a new and somewhat intimidating experience. Now that I'm darkening the doorway of the maintenance stage, I think to myself how much easier it is to have the weight loss plan in place than having to plan my own meals. It's enough to make me want to sabotage myself, and gain a few just to stay on the weight loss plan!


I know have to make mature adjustments to how I used to eat. It's going to be work - an educational experience. I'm going to have to learn about what foods have what calories. It's a transition all right! I sympathize with your confusion. If only maintenance were as clear cut and dried as the weight loss plan.


People who don't have any issues with food don't understand but we do. You sound like we have some things in common - being a perfectionist, a pleaser, an overachiever, and someone who has very high expectations of their self.


One thing I've realized as I get older and wiser is that I am not the be all and do all person I want to be, and that's ok. God still loves me. I'm learning to love myself now that I'm seeing the world as it is - full of flaws - mine included. I can face people now with my flaws exposed. I'm learning to be my own best friend.


When I'm not happy with myself, that's when I punish myself with overwork and other self-destructive behavior. But learning to like myself has given me a break from this. I'm happier - I'm forgiving of myself.


Dutch, I wish I could do something or say something to help through this tough stage. You're being too hard on yourself. I know, I've been there many many times. Perhaps I'm schizophrenic but it helps me to think of myself as my own best friend, and to treat myself that way.


As your friend, I want you to be happy, and enjoy the absolutely stupendous progress you have made. Just wanted to know I care.


Camille

[DutchChoc]

Thanks, Camillle. I know you care. Your ideas and practices are strong and don't stray from them.

I can willingly discuss my flaws, already, but I still get mad at myself for having them and even at others for knowing about them, lol.

As you can imagine, or maybe this is news to you, but there's really nothing anyone can do for me "now" until I am more open to receiving some kind of "non-fat" Grace. Sounds funny, but it came to me and it seems true. I should definitely behave more favorably to myself and try to be my own best friend, too.

So true about the overworking aspect that you referenced. Maybe I use that, at times, to try to bring myself "down" when I'm already edgy, like making enough work that it would be highly likely for me to fall short and create the dreaded disappointment in myself. I appreciate your understanding and empathy. Not sure why I'm traveling the "under-road" right now when I could be more victorious. Maybe it's just another facet of wanting more work to do -- if not work, then what else? I suspect that losing weight is a rather replentishing type of work that's occupied me lifelong. Sick and tragic! I haven't even seen some people to show them where I was able to "go", lol!!

Take care. What you learn you can help others learn, possibly. Thanks, again.

[DutchChoc]

All:

I recommend that we hereby close my "Dutch pity-party" and turn, instead, to the rest of the year, as originally envisioned by Nelly.