The MakeMeThinner Support Forum

[bikipatra]

Point well made and point taken, Jo. I've coined my own term - reasonably compliant. .

Isn't that kind of like being almost pregnant? But I guess if it's working for you...

[holberry]

Being true to your goals is a good thing.
hb

[MerryMary]

Life is full of making choices, Nickie--real discernment means making a choice between two or more good things. Sounds like that is the impasse you are facing while wanting to remain on the MF program. Just be mindful of what the consequences of your off-plan eating are: longer on the plan, slower weight loss, risk of being out of the fat-burning state, etc.

It has to be your choice. What is most important to you? The only thing you should do is be true to yourself--and only you can say what that looks like.

Mary

[MerryMary]

Point well made and point taken, Jo. I've coined my own term - reasonably compliant. .

Isn't that kind of like being almost pregnant? But I guess if it's working for you...

Personally, I think that is a poor analogy.

[nickieluv]

I really do appreciate that everyone wants me to be as successful as I can. I am working towards being perfect on the plan. But in the meantime I'm doing whatever it takes to keep me on it for the long haul.

The following may seem testy and I'm not trying to tick anyone off.

I'm being defensive because everytime someone says 'off-plan foods' I picture Chinese buffets and fast food bags and chips and cookies. And that's not what I'm doing. That's the all-or-nothing that leads me to cheat and that's what I'm training myself out of. I am just saying that if I have something I shouldn't, it ends then and there, and I do not go crazy and eat junk for three days. We're talking an extra ounce or two of protein, a 2nd bar in the same day, one shred of mozzarella cheese off my husband's salad.

So far it's working. And I know no one is trying to attack me here. And probably the very fact that I feel so defensive is telling me that I know I'm not being perfect. But I really value that in the last 10 days I have had no desires to cheat in a grand sense. I KNOW I'm technically not being compliant but I am not trying to justify that I'm only going off 'a little.' I'm doing it, by choice, when I feel I need to, and it's working for me very well so far.

I'll keep my eyes open and you all can too if it seems like I'm headed to another binge-fest. But in the meantime this is what I'm doing and I feel good about it. And I'm not going to keep waiting for someone to say 'hey, that's a good idea, I'm glad you're finding a way to deal with your cravings' because obviously that's not going to happen. And to be fair, if the shoe was on the other foot and I'm being honest, I wouldn't be commending someone else for doing what I'm doing. I get that.

All I can say to you is that I'm being honest about every extra bite. Sure some of those bites I'm not supposed to have - but in the long run, if it keeps me away from chocolate cake and McFlurries, it's a good thing for me.

And now in my usual childish fashion I will hit 'submit' and I will be afraid that no one will talk to me anymore because I'm not doing the plan as written. I know that's childish but remember, I have spent years thinking that the only way someone would like me is if I agreed with everything they said and did whatever they wanted. Standing on my own is new and still scary.

[bikipatra]

Point well made and point taken, Jo. I've coined my own term - reasonably compliant. .

Isn't that kind of like being almost pregnant? But I guess if it's working for you...

Personally, I think that is a poor analogy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Did you not "get" it or just find it in poor taste? Perhaps you didn't find it very spiritual. What an order! What I meant is you can be compliant or not. It is an absolute, much like being pregnant, and I think Nickie realizes that and she is still working on it.

[MerryMary]

I'm being defensive because everytime someone says 'off-plan foods' I picture Chinese buffets and fast food bags and chips and cookies. And that's not what I'm doing. That's the all-or-nothing that leads me to cheat and that's what I'm training myself out of. I am just saying that if I have something I shouldn't, it ends then and there, and I do not go crazy and eat junk for three days. We're talking an extra ounce or two of protein, a 2nd bar in the same day, one shred of mozzarella cheese off my husband's salad.

Sorry, Nickie, if you're feeling attacked. Be mindful, however, that I said "off-plan eating" and NOT "off-plan foods." There IS a difference.

I've made similar decisions as you have. For me, this program is not a race in time. It is a process not just of weight loss but of healthier decision making. I was hoping you would see my response as supportive of your decision:

The only thing you should do is be true to yourself--and only you can say what that looks like.

Mary

[Karli]

OMG. Okay. I am sorry but I have to jump in here and I probably shouldn't because Nickie, you are doing just fine on your own ! But GEEZ people !!

Now, what I find interesting is that if anybody who has been "perfect" on plan were to take what they did "then" compared to what the QuickStart Guide says "today," people's "perfect plan" no longer exists. This is not an exact science, there is not one single way to lose weight, and listen to what Nickie is saying and what she needs to be coping with ! Besides that, she is losing weight !

Two bars ? Do the math ! An extra bar as a supplement in a regular 5/1 day would add less calories and only 3 more carbs (which might be compensated for in whatever vegetable (not to mention the "lean" portion of this meal) she were to eat in her "legal" L/G meal) to her day than if she were "legal" and had a T of PB + an oatmeal as one of her supplements. If we "legally" ate oatmeal for every MF meal, we would add 15 more carbs to our day than if we had RTD's for every meal -- (and if she did that, she could "legally" still have a PB snack). Carbwise, the oatmeals are nearly an extra bar in itself -- and that's not even taking into account condiments and spices and so on that are "legal" !

Anyway, I am not suggesting to people to not follow our guidelines, but you are talking to somebody here who has lost 40 pounds and comes here everyday and is honest about what she is doing ! 40 POUNDS ! Don't you see how wishy washy this stuff is ?

argh.

[MerryMary]

Point well made and point taken, Jo. I've coined my own term - reasonably compliant. .

Isn't that kind of like being almost pregnant? But I guess if it's working for you...

Personally, I think that is a poor analogy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Did you not "get" it or just find it in poor taste? Perhaps you didn't find it very spiritual. What an order! What I meant is you can be compliant or not. It is an absolute, much like being pregnant, and I think Nickie realizes that and she is still working on it.

One CAN be "reasonably" compliant (meaning not absolute) but one CANNOT be "almost" pregnant.

[bikipatra]

Again Nickie, I will restate what I did earlier. If it is working for you please continue. I am really surprised that you would think no one would talk to you anymore. Has that ever happened before? You used to report rather large binges and we were still here to support you and will continue to be. I can only share my experience not my opinion.

[MerryMary]

OMG. Okay. I am sorry but I have to jump in here and I probably shouldn't because Nickie, you are doing just fine on your own ! But GEEZ people !!

Now, what I find interesting is that if anybody who has been "perfect" on plan were to take what they did "then" compared to what the QuickStart Guide says "today," people's "perfect plan" no longer exists. This is not an exact science, there is not one single way to lose weight, and listen to what Nickie is saying and what she needs to be coping with ! Besides that, she is losing weight !

Two bars ? Do the math ! An extra bar as a supplement in a regular 5/1 day would add less calories and only 3 more carbs (which might be compensated for in whatever vegetable she were to eat in her "legal" L/G meal) to her day than if she were "legal" and had a T of PB + an oatmeal as one of her supplements. If we "legally" ate oatmeal for every MF meal, we would add 15 more carbs to our day than if we had RTD's for every meal -- (and if she did that, she could "legally" still have a PB snack). That's nearly an extra bar in itself !

Anyway, I am not suggesting to people to not follow our guidelines, but you are talking to somebody here who has lost 40 pounds and comes here everyday and is honest about what she is doing ! 40 POUNDS ! Don't you see how wishy washy this stuff is ?

argh.

You said that so much better than I did.

[bikipatra]

Point well made and point taken, Jo. I've coined my own term - reasonably compliant. .

Isn't that kind of like being almost pregnant? But I guess if it's working for you...

Personally, I think that is a poor analogy.

I'm sorry you feel that way. Did you not "get" it or just find it in poor taste? Perhaps you didn't find it very spiritual. What an order! What I meant is you can be compliant or not. It is an absolute, much like being pregnant, and I think Nickie realizes that and she is still working on it.

One CAN be "reasonably" compliant (meaning not absolute) but one CANNOT be "almost" pregnant.

Again, I can only share my experience. When I was reasonably compliant, having a sandwich every 2 weeks or so or a bowl of cereal I was not losing weight at the pace I would like and I was hard on myself for failing. So yes, for me it is an absolute. I would like to add that the tough honesty of those on this board when I was either not eating enough supplements (reasonably compliant?) or eating off program were immeasurably helpful. Sometimes hard to take, but helpful.

[MerryMary]

When I was reasonably compliant, having a sandwich every 2 weeks or so or a bowl of cereal I was not losing weight at the pace I would like and I was hard on myself for failing.

Obviously your version of "resonably compliant" is different from Nickie's. She is NOT eating off-program foods as you did, Biki. She is making the program work for her--and what a good job she is doing! 40 lbs lost -- YES!!

I would be delighted to discuss this further if you want, Biki, but please PM me. I think we've hijacked Nickie's journal enough (for which I apologize, Nickie).

Mary

[Pashta]

Karli, I couldn't have said it better myself. I totally agree with what you said. I adjust the plan to suit my needs too. I do not go off plan, but I am trying to make it work for my lifestyle. Nickie is trying to make it work so she doesn't have the cravings. I think everybody has to adjust at one time or another.

I think the main thing here is: Is she still losing at a pace acceptable to her? If so then that's all that matters. If not then she will need to adjust. That's it!

[nickieluv]

Whoa! First, I think I owe Biki and Mary an apology for a couple of things.

Mary - I was feeling defensive but I never for a moment thought I was being attacked, really. I FELT that way but I know this is a very supportive place and I knew that every response was only an effort to get me to be my best. And I didn't see the difference between off-plan eating and off-plan foods but you're right, they are different. I am eating off-plan but not off-plan foods. I'll read more carefully. Thank you for coming back to clarify.

Biki - I do know that your style is very honest and you say things as you see them. I don't always agree with you (most people realize that's life, but I'm still learning that). I know that adults can disagree and still speak to each other. Sometimes I revert back to junior high mentality and really, I wouldn't be so afraid to lose this forum if I didn't need it so much. Oddly, my husband is the only person I'm not afraid to disagree with - I figure he's stuck with me! But I'm always nervous around people I consider friends or potential friends and I am hyperaware of everything I say, trying to read moods and not rock the boat. Probably dates back to my very temperamental father and not knowing whether he'd laugh with you or scream at you at any given moment. So to say what I did, while it may have seemed mild to some, seemed very risky to me. No, you all have never abandoned me, but I'm still growing in that respect.

Holberry, Karli, and Pashta - thanks for chiming in. I appreciate the votes of confidence! And Karli, nice to see you in my neck of the woods again.

I do still mean what I said, that if someone was talking about doing what I'm doing I'd warn them against it. Especially a newbie. It all comes down to the fact that only I know what's in my heart and mind - and when I try to explain it doesn't always come out right.

This whole thing has made me very uncomfortable because I spend most of my time trying to avoid conflict. I read all this when I got home tonight, and I was reminded of being caught in the middle of my parents' fights. It makes me wonder if I'm ever going to grow up! I'm reminded of a quote I heard at a teaching conference day last week: Conflict is inevitable, but combat is optional. So I need to stop avoiding conflict, because I can't. And I need to realize that conflict is not the same as fighting - it's trying to solve a problem. And in the real world, people disagree all the time and in most cases, lives do not end.

Now to more mundane matters - I am not hungry at all. We went grocery shopping today and my husband kept saying 'how about this' or 'how about that' and my response was 'I don't know.' Nothing sounded or looked good and I'm hoping we bought enough food for my L&Gs this week. It's 8pm and I still have to have 2 more supplements and I want to be in bed early - so I'm probably going to wind up with a double hot cocoa. I hope it doesn't screw up tomorrow's weigh-in too badly. Oh, but the church yard sale went well. We sold a lot of stuff and left the rest still set up so that tomorrow after church the congregation can take a look around and maybe we'll sell some more. 20% of our sales goes to the church but the main thing is that the stuff is out of our house!

I hope everybody has a great night and a great weigh-in tomorrow. And thank you for all this discussion in my journal. The upshot is that I feel both understood and cared for by all of you and that is a great feeling!